Offense pre-SORNA? Pennsylvania is a good option for you. | Florida Action Committee (2024)

Agreed, Jacob. Or pay their member dues. One would think that someone with means would pitch in.

Reply

Jacob

I didn’t even have the $2 or whatever it cost to play the Big lotto drawing last night. Man what I could do with those winnings. Must be nice to own a yacht.

Reply

Private Yachts…Are A Whole Other Situation…BELIEVE YOU ME…

I Personally Know!

When You Travel the US Territories You Do Not Need a Passport…

When You Travel On International Waters and Do Not Stop Anywhere You Do Not Need a Passport…Only When Entering a Port of Call in a Foreign Jurisdiction is a Passport Necessary……If You get off the Vessel!
-this is backed by Judges Wherein I reside!

Reply

Some US territories have been checking passports for years. All of a sudden, we view that as nefarious?

Reply

Yep…Leaving any US Territory, Traveling Domestically Commercially, You, First Go Through Customs and Immigration and Then you Go Through Homeland Security-TSA

YEP…It is Weird….But, During The First Phase, A “person forced to register’ is than Handed Over to The CBP and Then ABUSED! Then, You are Told to get in Line for TSA!
-I asked the Customs and Immigration Person Why are they do this..They Just Usher me over to the Locked Windowed Room of the CBP

Again, you do not need a US Passport…Just Your State Issued ID…So the Whole Thing is Nefarious!

Reply

Let me guess the commissioner wasn’t on the registry, so how did that work out for Philadelphia? We always get punished for something someone else did and frankly ticks me off. Lawmakers need to get their own house in order as accountability goes and then we can talk; otherwise there’s the curb.

Reply

See also,

Nirvana lawsuit over ‘Nevermind’ Child p*rn album cover dismissed by judge because the plaintiff, who claimed he was the vicitim of sexual exploitation of a child by being placed nude on the album cover, failed to amend his original complaint to meet legal requirements.

https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/nirvana-lawsuit-nevermind-cover-dismissed-judge

Reply

If you want to see a lot of dumb people, just read the comments at the article. Too many Amerikans are brainless and just believe the rampant lies and conflation of law enforcement. This “operation” likely did very, very little that was useful and probably harmed society more than it helped. The “people” who brainlessly cheer it on, based on nothing more than the lies and PR of self-serving law enforcement, can’t be fixed. Can’t fix stupid.

The big government PR said, “Often countless hours of follow up investigative work are required during and after a compliance check.” Yeah, LOL, “countless”. Except they will count them and all get overpaid for them. That is the point for the law enforcement criminals. They obviously have way too much money and other resources. Don’t vote for big government!

Reply

Just Sayin
Yes it’s impossible for news media to get it right or to tell the real story. They just leave out very important details every time. The mentioned the sex offenders were arrested for felony offenses but failed to mention those offenses were for failing to keep there records straight with the department. All of the 6 girls that were supposedly saved by the sting were all runaways . Since all the details are not given these few that that had connections with the girl may have just been trying to give them a place to stay. The girls may have not wanted to be helped.
Every time one of these articles is written it’s all about making it dramatic as possible leaving out any facts that would give a true observation of the real situation.

Reply

Saddles

Nothing against Penn state but, #1 my parents are here, I cannot stand the extreme cold, and not going to give in to the Florida mafia and have them pressure me into moving. Like having a bad wife, you are stuck with her unless you file for divorce, which can cost a man everything. (Been there, done that).

Reply

In response to the state’s losses that were piling up in the Pennsylvania Supreme Court, the Pennsylvania Legislature rewrote its sex offender registration law so that there are now two sets of criteria and requirements: one set for offenders whose offenses occurred before December 2012 (which is pretty much the system Pennsylvania had for all offenders before 2012) and one set for offenders whose crimes took place after December 2012. The Pennsylvania Supreme Court has found several times that the post-2012 requirements are punitive and therefore cannot be applied retroactively (only offenders whose crimes took place after December 2012 can be subjected to them). However, the state’s Supreme Court ruled (I think last year) that the set of requirements for pre-2012 offenders are not punitive in effect and can therefore be applied retroactively. The pre-2012 requirements are significantly less burdensome than the post-2012 ones.

Reply

Fact Check Bot
The whole problem isn’t 2012 or 2006 but sometime in the 1990s when the “ Cancel Culture “ was legitimized as being a good thing. This idea wasn’t starting then. It actually started when Cain killed his brother because he felt he deserved to live and his brother didn’t . It was further promoted when slavery was promoted as a good thing so that those who are superior could control those they deemed as lower class. Then when the registry was established they could have a new class to dominate and consider as of no account. Not only could they feel that way themselves but could influence others by way of public shaming. So doing making others feel they are not one of the super ones either if they don’t go along with the viewpoint of these who consider themselves superior.
So the registry validated the Cancel Culture saying it is a good thing. Why? Because it makes the supporters of it look super to these others. So they deserve the benefits of society but these lesser ones don’t. The more people and the longer they can keep them on this list the more they can benefit. Just as a land owner benefits from having more slaves. So welcome to the 21 st Century slavery renamed the sex offender registry.

Reply

Wonder how the general public is going to handle this. Hope no politicians are seeking reelection or election
in the near future. I can hear them already. {Thousands of sex offenders are going to flock here if we do not change this most dangerous decision/ruling.} Rise up people and protest this Judge’s decision the future of our children is at stake. Sound far-fetched? Not to me.

Reply

Brandon

Well said. My elderly parents are here so I have to stay anyway as they were there for me when I was in prison. I owe them that. At least I know what to expect here. And with all these positive rulings, something has to give.
Although if I got off the registry, I might move to another area of town where people don’t know my past. NOT because I have to hide something, but want to stop worrying about broken windows, slit tires, dookie on the doorstep etc.
AND I can get away from nextdoor “Karens” LOL

Reply

I dare them to take it to SCOTUS. I’d wager they’ll burn the whole thing down!

Reply

I meant to say that, because Penn’s original, very first Megan’s law was effective starting Oct. 24, 1995, I should be able to live there without registering.

Reply

Rayo

BUT, don’t you just want to hug the judges who actually sided with us on the fact we ARE being punished “After we were already sentenced”?
It is such a “Breath of fresh air” to see a REALLY honest judge who follows the law, not based on emotion of what we may or may not have done.

Reply

It seems to me that although you might have no need to register in that state as per their specific law that you would still be required to register because you are required to register in Florida FOR LIFE.

I am wrong about that? Would be nice…

Reply

JC, and anyone else who understands, please help me grasp this. I was “charged” and convicted by the feds in 2009 for an offense that they said occurred in 2007. So I can now leave Florida and move to Pennsylvania wihtout having to be registered there according to their Supreme court?

Reply

… Until you factor in the Federal requirement to register (SORA). I’m fairly certain I’m not mistaken in that beginning January 6(?) of 2022 all States are required to adhere to updated Federal standards regarding SORA. For current Florida residents this is little different from what you are currently required to do while not being officially supervised.
Someone feel free to correct me if I’m wrong.

Reply

Even if you moved to PA Florida at this time will NOT remove you so you will still be in a Database shared all over and checked.

Reply

OK. Maybe I’m missing something, but with the new federal registry taking effect, wouldn’t everyone in all states be forced to stay on that registry for 25 years after release from confinement, or release from conviction, if no subsequent confinement? If this is the case, why bother moving at all?

Reply

GC, the answer to your question can be found in the weekly update sent out earlier this month: https://floridaactioncommittee.org/weekly-update-2021-12-08-ref181/
A win in another jurisdiction is not binding here, but it can be used in a persuasive argument here.

Reply

@anonymous Thanks for sharing your comments, especially the international travel bit- May I respectfully inquire if your passport has/had the IML brand now or when you entered the US? And which airport did you clear the US customs? I am abroad now and wondering when and which airport would be the best choice to arrive at. Thanks! : )

Reply

You might have been lucky although it might be standard in Europe. However, I was returned by Argentine customs to the USA. I was also told it was because YOUR country sent the notice and they said further that they were instructed not to allow me in but return me.

I was also told that once I cleared it up with MY government that Argentina would welcome me in as they had no problem with me but rather was simply doing what the USA had requested of them to do. 🙁

Reply

Even though you would likely be removed from the UK registry after 5 years had you been convicted there, they wont let you in. Germany declare a lifetime registration to be violative of the European Convention on Human Rights. Ironically, so did a court in the UK, but that doesn’t
t matter as they are no longer part of the EU. In certain countries in the EU like Belgium, public disclosure of this type of information is illegal and even in places that do keep track of some info like France and the Netherlands, there is no public registry.

Reply

Remember what was said about Michigan’s recto activity, and what the truth was, ,,, I wouldn’t put the cart in front of the horse just yet,,,,,,

Reply

If memory serves me,
Sorna was implemented in 1996 and retroactive ten years by date of conviction ( in Michigan)

Reply

Cherokee, the answer to your question can be found in the weekly update sent out earlier this month: https://floridaactioncommittee.org/weekly-update-2021-12-08-ref181/
A win in another jurisdiction is not binding here, but it can be used in a persuasive argument here.

Reply

@ Cherokee: I suppose you are referring to those same creepy sex offenders who it turns out are actually husbands, stepfathers, uncles, granddads, educators, priests, tutors, babysitters, youth sports coach coaches, etc. 😲
Oh yeah, that’s right, those “creepy sex offenders” are family members and friends – people they know aren’t they!! Yikes!! 😱

Reply

Of course, the bad news is that if one of us who was convicted after the original registration statute was passed in Pennsylvania tries this, The state will naturally argue that this is different because Santana was convicted before there was any kind of state registry. Likewise, we have seen other states just willy-nilly say that anyone from out of state is automatically a life registrant without regard to the nature of their offense or, in the case of Ohio Like with our old compatriot Derek Logue, they will apply the law of the state where you were convicted, in his case Alabama, where any sex offense is a lifetime registration offense like Florida. I do believe that the Pennsylvania Supreme Court found earlier like the Ohio Supreme Court did that you couldn’t change the original time of registration from 10 years to the sauna compliant 25 years in a retroactive manner. It will be interesting to see if this decision does in fact prohibit differing application of the law to those who were convicted in the commonwealth in Pennsylvania and those who were convicted elsewhere. It would seem logical that if you weren’t designated as a predator in Florida and as such, you were registered for life but eligible to apply for removal after 10 or 20 years when you were convicted, then you should be subject to the old 10 year law in Pennsylvania. That didn’t work out very well in other places like Ohio and, until recently, Indiana, at least for some people. But, if such a determination was made, you might be looking at a situation where you could move to Pennsylvania and be removed without having to beg and plead for it. That would be nice. From what little I can determine from the SORNA And it’s enabling rules that were passed recently, “impossibility“ is still an excuse for violating provisions of the federal law and impossibility seems to include that your state has no interest or no ability to comply in your case. That is to say perhaps that you’re not eligible for registration under the state law so you’re not registered. This is another chip out of the wall, but I wouldn’t start doing my happy dance just yet. Remember that we have a supreme court decision that says that the state cannot ban you from the inter-webs or from social media, but we still have perfectly valid laws in places like Florida’s it that say that the government can provide information about your Internet identifiers that is not available to the general public directly to the social media companies so that they can effectively ban you from the Internet. Of course, the state with Roberts hands and say no no no we’re not doing anything to ban that poor person from the Internet it’s those evil private companies. Of course, we know that’s a load of crap . So let’s keep our fingers crossed and maybe will be able to move someplace nice like Gettysburg or Carlisle, Pennsylvania.

Reply

CherokeeJack

That wasn’t a camera it was my bottle capped glasses from grade school. I was trying to see if I could start a fire since it snowed yesterday in Maryland.

Reply

Bad example with the drinking age. The same summer that Florida went from 18 to 19, Georgia did too. Florida grandfathered in the 18 year olds. Georgia did not. I turned 19 in June and my buddy turned 19 in September. We went to a club that he had been going to since he was like 17 and they turned him away. IIRC, same thing happened in Florida with the 19 to 21 jump. If you turned 19 before July 1 of 1985, you were grandfathered in. Not so in other states,

Reply

@Brandon,

Respectfully one needs to be charged, not convicted, before that date. In things like this it is always the date of the charges that matters.

Reply

Actually, it also helps those convicted before December 2012 and who move to Pennsylvania at any time (including now or in the future). Depending on your offense, you may have to register in Pennsylvania for 10 years, life, or not at all. And even if required to register in Pennsylvania upon relocating there, if your offense occurred before December 2012 the registration requirements are far less than those imposed by Florida.

As the title of the article states, if your offense occurred before PA SORNA (December 2012), Pennsylvania is a good option for you. The cost of living is relatively low, and housing expenses in most places other than Philadelphia are also low. Housing costs in Pittsburgh are minimal due to the massive depopulation that has taken place in Western Pennsylvania during the past several decades. You can find a nice house in Pittsburgh for well under $200K.

Reply

Brandon

That is nice if you don’t have a family or want to move there. I grew up in the cold winter Northern months. I will take my chances here.
Been in Florida now since 1979. Other than the registry, I happen to like living here. You have to weigh out the pros and cons. Moving somewhere just because they do not apply the registry to you is an individual decision.

Having said that, I moved in 2003 to California alone to get away from the registry. I found out I was in violation of both Florida and California’s registry by doing so. I did not do my homework so moved right back to Florida 3 days later as if nothing had happened. (Rules were more relaxed then).

Reply

Brandon, the big question is whether it applies to us out of staters for purposes of determining when our obligation to register terminates. My understanding is that Pennsylvania like Ohio and a number of other jurisdictions, used to terminate most registrations at 10 years. But like a lot of these other states other than say Vermont, they applied either the “whichever is longer“ rule and compared the registration requirements in your state of conviction and in Pennsylvania, or they just automatically determined that all out of state convictions would result in a classification of life registration like they did in Kentucky, Indiana and a couple of other places. What we can hope for is that this decision not only says you can’t apply the stuff retroactively, but you must also apply Pennsylvania law to anyone coming in, not whatever law you choose to apply. That would be a game changer, although I still don’t know if it would help you with things like international travel because the feds have appeared to take over that task and they’re still going to require you to tell the Marshal service when you’re going out of the country. For me, that obligation to “register” with the feds appears to end in 2025 so maybe I’ll be able to go back to Europe for my 65th birthday assuming that I can ever afford it. Lol

Reply

Brandon you are right on that. I was convicted in July of 2012 and yes I an a tier 3 and yes I even took a friend with me to the PO office when I visited back in Oct and he ask when my release was up and yes its an honor system type of justice and many more states should follow suit.

Happy new years all in your area. We all can look for brighter things to come even for those with past ordeals and states to follow suit.

Reply

Jakob
I agree. What about all the add on from states . At that time there was no available internet as there is now. So no matter what it’s form it’s totally different now than when in acted .
This ruling raises more questions than answers.

Reply

SORNA was enacted in 2006 – https://smart.ojp.gov/sorna/current-law

Reply

SORNA is an acronym for “Sex Offender Registration And Notification Act.” There is federal SORNA, which imposes an independent duty to register of either 15/10 years, 25 years, or life, depending on the offense (note that Florida does not have any registerable 15/10 year offenses, only 25 year and life offenses). And each state has its own version of SORNA, although a state may not actually call it that, as is the case in Florida. Lawyers and others use SORNA as a general term for a state’s sex offender registration scheme. Thus, you will see the term FSORNA (Florida SORNA) in our pending lawsuits (Ex Post Facto I and II) to refer to Florida Statute Section 943.0435 for the sake of convenience since FSORNA is more convenient than having to refer back to the statute number each time.

The federal duty to register and the state duty to register are independent and parallel. Depending on the state and the offense, especially how closely a given state’s version of SORNA matches up with federal SORNA, the duties to register may or may not terminate at the same time (or one may terminate while the other never does). The duty to register under federal SORNA begins upon release from incarceration (or placement on probation if you weren’t sentenced to incarceration), but under Florida SORNA it only begins upon completion of probation or any post-release supervision. In my particular case, my federal duty to register will expire on April 27, 2024 (25 years to the day after I was sentenced to probation for my case back in 1999 for an offense classified as Tier II under federal SORNA that occurred in August 1997, a couple of months before Florida SORNA went into effect). However, I won’t be legally eligible to petition to be relieved of my Florida duty to register until December 17, 2030 (20 years to the day after my probation expired), and then there is no guarantee. So my federal duty to register will expire with certainty in April 2024, after which I won’t be subject to federal prosecution for any potential SORNA violations, but my Florida duty to register may never end, or it may end in December 2030 if my day in court goes well, or it might end before that if we win our Ex Post Facto cases since my offense predated the enactment of Florida SORNA.

Reply

Sorna seems to have some “optional” parts because you see states that do not do all of the things that SORNA requires, but they are considered to be “substantially compliant” for money purposes. Georgia is perhaps aa good example, Even for people subject to the craziest restrictions ( based on date of conviction) the state does not appear to collect the internet identifier information.

Reply